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Altitude, Pitch, Heading, IAS Selections. How? Where?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 23:00 Reply with quote
martinlest
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 193
Location: Hampshire, UK




I seem to have got back into the Tu154-B2 OK: All warning lights are out as I start the take-off roll and I rotate fine..

But I seem to have forgotten aspects of the AP operation and I can't find the answers in the pdf manuals. Can anyone who flies this a/c regularly kindly advise? I think the answers are going to be pretty straight forward!

I have AP engaged (with bank & pitch channels on) and I can set the speed channel OK (21 in the manual) but I am not having much luck selecting climb rate (climb wheel seems locked) or IAS.

A large part of the problem is that I can't even see where my selected climb rate or IAS are indicated on the cockpit instruments, so I just have to guess. Where are these shown?

Maybe some kind person could list what I have do on the AP in order, say, to climb to 8000' at 2000ft/min. I can't preselect an altitude, can I, with this a/c, so that it levels off automatically?

And I haven't worked out how the Heading Selector mode works either! I can turn with the turn knob but how do I get the autopilot to turn to, say 90 degrees, and hold that heading? Or can't I do that?

I have clearly forgotten a lot about the AP. Years of flying Airbuses and Boeings in the interim, I guess, have lead me astray!!

Martin
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Learning to walk again?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:07 Reply with quote
WalterLeo
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 1660
Location: Viena Austria




Hi Martin:

As you said, "flying" other simulated aircrafts spoils the basic knowledge of the Tu-154s operation.

1) Very important is to activated the AP correctly during startup, see page 27 ff (chapter 5.3.2.4) of the B2 manual. For basic operations of AP and AT see chapter 7 (page 74 ff) of that manual

2) No altitude capture function available only holding an actual altitude therefore no window to select that altitude. No FD indication for holding altitude. Horizontal bar of FD only for ILS.

3) Altitude hold is button "H" the climb rate selector below has no numbers, you handle that via the reactions on the VSI default middle position +/- 0 climb/descent.

4) Heading hold button "3K", heading selection via the left knob on the HSI.

5) VOR following VOR 1 "A3-1" Vor 2 "A3-2".
TRACK selection NOT with the right knob on HSI, this one turns only the HSI for a selected track upright. The track is selected by the track selector on the overhead panel besides the frequency selector. see page 38 ff. On the 154M the tracks are selected on the navigators panel.

6) AT: Red triangle on the VSI indicates selected speed after AT is switched on button "C" by default actual speed is beeing hold, with the +/- selector you can change the speed, the red triangle follows that input, AT should catch up with the speed, if AT is correctly activated, see page 78 chapter 7.1.5. Left window of the HSI indicates +/- actual speed ("V") to the selected value.

7) FD vertical bar: works for all navigation modes after switch STREPKI is on, even if AP stabilisation had not beeing selected by green button
"STAB".

8) VOR,NVU and GPS (INS) computation (for AP and FD) is switched on by switch "NAVIGAT", ILS computation for FD and AP by switch "POSADKI", never both switches on together.
ILS: SACHOD (Loc) GLISAD (GP) both buttons must be lighted. If joined correctly from below AP switches automatically GLSAD on, if you do it by hand before on GP airplane starts to climb.

9) Means you can handfly all the AP functions following FD if STAB is not selected.

10) Selecting STAB while AP function are alredy selected can lead to sharp AP reactions which will scare your Paxes.

11) Selecting STAB without AP functions selected will hold present attitude. Turnknob on AP changes heading in that operational mode.

12) Selecting basic functions like the climb/descent selector or the turnknob can override or switch off certain selected navigational modes like altitude holding, VOR following etc.


Good luck!

Walter

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 13:03 Reply with quote
martinlest
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 193
Location: Hampshire, UK




Thanks a lot for the detailed reply Walter. I will read through your comments and report back: I think that, to some extent (because I know there are huge differences) I am expecting to be able to control the AP functions in a Boeing-like manner.

I notice that, even though I have trim assigned to my Saitek X52 (as with all a/c), I just get a 'twitching' of the trim gauge in the cockpit when I try to increase or decease trim: the needle stays on zero (but the bottom green indicator light TAHΓ is lit showing trim/CoG set OK, if I have understood the manual correctly). I need to recheck my joystick setup, I suppose.

I also get twitching of the rudder, as I taxi. This is usually because the yaw damper has been engaged. I wonder if, like with all other a/c, I should only engage the YD as I enter the runway. Anyone know when the YD is applied in the real plane?

M
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 13:53 Reply with quote
martinlest
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 193
Location: Hampshire, UK




OK, I think I fixed the trim issue. At first I couldn't figure it out, as none of the X52 buttons brought up the green OK light, but then I realised that I was using an X52 profile in which trim had been assigned to two buttons on the joystick. I deleted those two assignments and saved the configuration as a special .pro file for Tu154 use. Now the trim indicator in the plane seems to behave properly (though I haven't tested it out in flight yet).

Martin
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YD and taxiing
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 15:15 Reply with quote
WalterLeo
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 1660
Location: Viena Austria




Hi:

The YD stays in the simulation always on (switch on the overhead). Did not find a point in the real Tu-154M manual about it. But take care to have switched on for taxi 65 deg of nosewheel movement and before T.O. switch to 10 deg, after gear retraction nosewheel steering off (switches left of the light switches).
If you dont switch to 10 deg. before T.O. the TOWS red light ("T.O. FORBIDDEN!) wont go out.

Kind regards

Walter

P.S.: Did you switch off the FS joystick? Its mandadtory to do that, if not strange reactions can occure. The joystick must be programed with the PT-interface the FS joystick already switched off. And the elevator trim system MET must be programed on the joystick.

Boeing 727 panels Sperry AP SP 50 on the HJG (R. Probst P. Carthy) panels works similar but still less complex.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 17:10 Reply with quote
martinlest
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 193
Location: Hampshire, UK




Yes, I switch the T.O. to 10 degs before TO. As I say, I have no red warning lights as I take off.

I think as long as the YD is active before TO it's fine. It's not used when on the ground of course.

And yes, I did turn off the joystick before calibrating the Tu154 controls.

Thanks.
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Jaw-Damper
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:42 Reply with quote
WalterLeo
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 1660
Location: Viena Austria




martinlest

Hi Martin!

Checked the real checklists: Jawdamper is no point from startup to T.O. therefore its always on. As all the Tus with their pronounced anhedral and high wingsweep have a marked dutch roll tendency, the jawdamper is always on.

I have the rudder axis programmed on the joystick on the same axis as the ailerons. Aerodynamic control at the end of the T.O. run is better in that way, from Tu-104 to Tu-154 and IL 62 also.

Kind regards

Walter

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 14:23 Reply with quote
martinlest
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 193
Location: Hampshire, UK




OK Walter, will check the rudder axis. The juddery rudder with YD on during taxi happens in a lot of FS a/c. With the sophistication of the Tu154 setup maybe this can be cured then.

Haven't flown the plane for a couple of days as I have been concentrating on re-doing the startup guide. I have posted a new one today, combining pics and text. Can you see anything missing or incorrect (adjacent post to this one)?

Will try a flight today, after reading your AP advice, and see how it goes.

Martin
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Startup Guide?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 16:30 Reply with quote
WalterLeo
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 1660
Location: Viena Austria




Hi Martin:

Not yet seen your new guide (attachment or post is missing?), but I will check it and afterward we can post it on PT-fileshare.

Kind regards

Walter

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 17:13 Reply with quote
martinlest
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 193
Location: Hampshire, UK




Missing? It's the second link here:

(see new thread)

Can you download it OK?

M.


Last edited by martinlest on Wed Aug 28, 2013 22:07; edited 1 time in total
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Pictorial Guide
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 18:51 Reply with quote
WalterLeo
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 1660
Location: Viena Austria




Hi Martin:

Didf not see your post as new. Have checked it: No error!

BUT:

Point 105b-105e (hydraulics charging) should be done before engine startup and before switching on the fuelpumps.

Reasons:

You will need some day braking power even the engines are not running, therefore for safety the emergency braking system should be available before engine start.
The electric hydraulic pumps and the fuelpumps together will kill the electric system by overload, as long as not all generators are working.


Fuel system: One could misunderstand leaving off the fuelpumps of the nearly empty tanks. As long as fuel is in a tank, its pumps should be on.

A hint on the loadmanager and the correct fuel distribution according it could be useful before the startup sequence starts.

Many thanks, nice work!!

Kind regards

Walter

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 21:27 Reply with quote
martinlest
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 193
Location: Hampshire, UK




Thanks Walter, will go back and look at that.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 06:04 Reply with quote
martinlest
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 193
Location: Hampshire, UK




OK, 'final' version uploaded.

By the way, is the FSX version the same as the FS9 one, in so far as the panel and startup procedures are concerned? I generally use FSX for GA flying and FS9 for commercial flights, so only have the FS9 Tupolevs...

M.
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FSX Tu-154B2
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:16 Reply with quote
WalterLeo
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 1660
Location: Viena Austria




Hi:

There is a (not so big) difference in the electric system btw. FS9 and FSX: it resembles now more the PT Tu-154M. The King KLN90B GPS doesnt work in FSX, therefore it had been replaced by an INS. Check details please in Kirill´s posts in the FSX forum here.

Kind regards

Walter

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 15:22 Reply with quote
martinlest
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 193
Location: Hampshire, UK




Hi. I am still having problems with the AP (I am sure I was OK with it once upon a time??). I will re-read the manual again (I have the instruments set up OK, I am sure; it's the operation of the AP I can't get), but one question anyway: Where do I see in the cockpit intruments what IAS I have selected in the A/Thr and what VS rate I have selected. I adjust the +/- with the AT IAS and Attitude Pitch wheels, but I can't see anywhere an indication of the currently selected IAS/VS values.

Also (not connected to the AP issue), throttles in the cockpit are constantly 'twitching' and the elevators also twitch and snap back to centre position when I pull the yoke back or push it forwards. Oddly, this only starts happening at some stage during the 8-minute engine warmup (and before I turn on YD/Roll/Pitch control). At first, as I am setting up the elcrtics etc., the control surfaces behave normally. Maybe, Walter (as per your advice above), could you tell me (when you have a moment!) exactly which flight controls you have assigned to which axes? I assume you don't get this problem?

Other problems too, but as I say, I'll have a look at the manual again before I post them.

Thanks,

Martin
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Altitude, Pitch, Heading, IAS Selections. How? Where?
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