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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 16:53 Reply with quote
martinlest
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Location: Hampshire, UK




More....

I made two flight plans in NCalc, one with RSBN beacons, one without. I saved them both to NA, with beacon corrections as 1 and without as 2.

Then started up the a/c (I can do that without looking at any guides by now!) and set off down the runway. I set the Virtual Navigator to use Plan 1, with beacons, set it to Auto and started the NVU counter as I picked up speed before take-off.

Flew manually until I was ready to join the flight path and pressed HBY. The plane turned sharply off course. I went back to 3K and rejoined the flight path. I had meantime reset the VN so that the a/c now used the non-beacon flight plan. Again, at the right moment I pressed HBY. The plane remained on course.

Just to see, I went back to the flight plan with beacons - the a/c still remained on course.

The problem by that time was that the counting had got out of sync.. When is the 'right' moment to set the counter going? At TO roll? I still can't get it to work if I fly manually and set it again as I hit my next waypoint. Грусть

I'll try again from scratch (good job I've taken a few months off work!).. But that's 'where I am at' for the moment.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 23:53 Reply with quote
martinlest
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Location: Hampshire, UK




LATER:

Tried flying with flight plans containing no RSBN corrections at all and the aircraft behaves impeccably again: it follows the flight path exactly and makes smooth turns at exactly the right points. I can make slight adjustments en route with the B-140..

I'll try a full flight tomorrow, but this looks the way I should be flying. I will try to make manual HBY corrections en route.

To be honest, I love this plane and I got involved with it right at the start of its life, in 2005. But in the last analysis, the NVU part of it was designed for people with a little more patience than I have. Хитрый

Martin
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Again: Dont use the Virtual Navigator!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 08:26 Reply with quote
WalterLeo
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Hi Martin:

If one wants to learn to play golf, the British Open would not be the best place for that! Хитрый

If one does not use the VN, the basics and the fine points (RSBN correction Fork correction) come in easy even with only the manual.

If underway the NVU gets out of sync, fly manualy (or by VOR or KLN90B) to the next waypoint, flying there you program the NVU I for the next leg and passing the waypoint you switch on the Diss system and change the AP setting for NVU following.

But have a printout of your NCALC sheet at hand and KLN90B programed for your flight.

Besides most of us first flew distances with KLN90B first and started afterwards to learn the NVU. I never use VN.

Kind regards

Walter

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Exampleflight MMMX MMUN in English available
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:26 Reply with quote
WalterLeo
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Hi:

Here an English Version of the exampleflight.

http://www.protu-154.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12792

Hope it helps a little.

Walter

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:58 Reply with quote
martinlest
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The English version will probably help, thanks - I followed the gist of the German but lost quite a lot of detail. I also find some of the English in the pdf manual very confused (and I say that as an English teacher), Plus the added ingredient of an unknown language (Russian - though at least I recognise the alphabet!).

I'll have a go at the Mexico flight when I have finished my Russian odyssey. (I want to have a look at the IL-62, too!).
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IL-62 NV PB
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:19 Reply with quote
WalterLeo
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Hi:

"With that navigation system your frustration level may increase!" Should be printed on the IL-62M manual (it was even for trained real navigators "a handful"!) But handled well it was extremly capable!

Regarding PT-Tu-154M manual on NVU navigation: Sometimes it helps to compare it with the PT-Tu-154B2 chapters, which in certain important points are clearer. Dont know why....
The TKS systems correction is very well explained in the German paper "TKS.."
TEIL-2 UMST-TKS.pdf - 308 KB

The notes were made during the real Tu-154M navigators training by NAVIG49. But they are in German and handwritten, so its impossible to translate it easily...

Walter

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 15:59 Reply with quote
martinlest
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I have a few more flights in the 154M before I go on to look at the IL-62! I've got the manual, so I'll have a look through that first.

Thanks for the handwritten German pdf - I think I'll follow the essence of it when I get round to reading it properly.

Just had a perfect flight from UOOO to UUYS. I used a flight plan with no beacon corrections. The correction for magnetic variation at the arrival airport was OK, but I got stuck immediately trying to do the en route correction, where the manual was not helpful (p.232):

1. We enter ИЗПУрм from the flight plan

Well, we might, if we knew what 'ИЗПУрм' was! There is no other mention of the term in the manual to say what it is and my NCalc flight plan has no such mention either, in Russian or in English. And where do we enter it, even if we found it?? The pdf manual is clearly a great tool, but I wish that there weren't so many vague instructions (for someone who is not familiar with th NVU).

Well, it doesn't really matter. I have to balance realism against frustration (having a flight turn back on itself like yesterday, after so much setting up, ruins my whole day!!). The way I flew today is, I think, a good balance, and ends up with me feeling all is well with the world. And that's what it is all about, after all!!

M. Улыбка
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Examplflight MMMX MMUN
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 09:14 Reply with quote
WalterLeo
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Hi:

Looked into the English translation again, seems it will be helpful to include more screenshots (and numbered) for doing RSBN correction and TKS realignment.

Noticed also, that some corrections in the text were necessary, therefore I will load up a corrected version as soon as posible.

Kind regards

Walter

P.S.: The RSBN correction on chapter 8.2 of the Tu-154B2 flight manual (page 135) starting from point 2 is correctly described.

Point 1 should read:

"1. put into the MAP angle selector "UGOL KARTY" the MAP angle to the next waypoint."

The my red numbers below point to:

1 RSBN chanel to be used for RSBN correction going from NAUTLA to MEDOS

2 Column of MAP angle

3 Map angle to put into "UGOL KARTY"

4 Sm value

5 Zm value


The confusion arises by using an outdated NCALC sheet in the B2 manual, which was not updated when publishing the M manual. The screenshot in B2 manual is correct and applies also to M model.



Flightplan RSBN.1.jpg
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Flightplan RSBN.1.jpg



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 21:54 Reply with quote
martinlest
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Location: Hampshire, UK




One more thing. Is there a guide somewhere to what all the switches are on the upper FE panel (the one with the FDR)? Again, I haven't found any info anywhere.

Thank you!

M.

LATER:: OK, found this:

http://www.protu-154.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11696&highlight=brake+fan

but some of the switches aren't detailed - at the top for instance. I'll have to start entering the Russian labels into Google Translator...
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Upper FE panel new in ver. 2.03
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 08:46 Reply with quote
WalterLeo
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Hi:


Should explain everything together with Maxmik screenshot (4th of May 2010)

Quote:
With the help of FS Panelstudio

I tried to find out some of the switches and gauges:
When I dont understand it I ll put a questionmark in front.

1: Gear indicator
2: lamp test gear doors

3: wing lights
4: door heat
5: gear ventilation
6:power switch water level
7: water pump 1
8: water pump 2
Вопрос 9: power switch "thvost signal"

Вопрос 10 power switch ARD heat
11 water level check
12 power switch ITV (watch?)
Вопрос A: ITV
Вопрос 13: busta tablo

without numbers, all Вопрос Вопрос :

SSOS lamp SSOS btn1---btn3
sliv heat power, heat lamp, heat check btn
thvost check 1,2 thvost lamp.

If you could translate a little the points with the question marks?

Thanks in advance

Regards


Quote:
Excuse for mine English Смущение

power switch "thvost signal" - Temperature of a APU compartment

power switch ARD heat - Heating of valves of a regulating system of pressure

ITV - The indicator of correct time

busta tablo - The boosters are not included (The cover is open)


Kind regards

Walter

P.S.: SSOS is the GPWS (ground proximity warning system)

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:31 Reply with quote
martinlest
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Yes, I saw those posts Walter, thanks. There were still some switches not explained I thought, but I am not at my FS PC right now - I'll check again.
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NCalc questions
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