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NCalc questions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 20:58 Reply with quote
martinlest
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 193
Location: Hampshire, UK




I ask here, as I can't find any manual for NCalc (apart from what is written in the 154M manual). Is there one in fact? There are quite a few options I don't understand, and although I have found some help in threads here, most are very old and refer to versions of NCalc that seem to have quite different interfaces from the latest one.

As I fly a flightplan (I import a plan into NCalc from FS9, click 'Calculate' and export the result - with or without beacon corrections - as *.pln, and to NA. I then import the NCal .pln into FS9), my a/c strays further and further from the flight path until ATC (PFE) tells me to check my position. The a/c does follow the waypoints but at an ever increasing distance from them.

Should I always make corrections for RSBN beacons in NCalc (and then re-calculate)? The RSBN power then obviously needs to be on in the OH panel. What if there are no RSBN beacons over large stretches of my route? Does that mean I can't correct course drift?

One thing I see I am supposed to do is enter the magnetic variation of my departure and destination airports into NCalc, but the only reference I have found as to how to do this (from 2005) refers to buttons that are not in my version of the programme. I can right-click the airports and choose 'Punkt Properties', where there is an option 'Manual entering of magnetic declension'. What is that exactly? Without any help/guide, I am rather proceeding by guesswork. How do I enter the airports' MagVar into NCalc?

Many thanks!

Martin


Last edited by martinlest on Tue Oct 01, 2013 00:53; edited 14 times in total
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Re: NCalc questions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 21:25 Reply with quote
martinlest
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 193
Location: Hampshire, UK




.. I am still reading the manual BTW (9.2 et seq), vis-a-vis RSBN corrections in the NVU.

Will the Virtual Navigation unit do this automatically though? I can set the destination airport magnetic variation using the right-hand red button (under the red cover), but maybe I can only do en route RSBN corrections manually (looks complex!!!).

It's all going to seem so simple back in the PMDG 747 after all this!!
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RSBN corrections
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:36 Reply with quote
WalterLeo
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 1660
Location: Viena Austria




Hi Martin:

If you or your virtual translator understands German:
NAVIG49 (he was a real Tu-154M navigator once) and I have published an exampleflight MMMX MMUN with all that interesting issues. But we did not use the virtual navigator as the real Tu-154M had "only" a human one.

see that:

http://www.protu-154.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12715

And be careful: RSBN corrections and TKS corrections are different things. In RSBN correction the realignment of the compass systems is not and should not be done. Its purpose is to correct with a radio navigation indication the counters of the NVU system means to bring your navigationsystem to indicate your real position. The lateral deviation ("B") can be done automatically, the distance ("C") must be corrected by hand.
TKS corection is done only before starting descent to the landing airport to avoid dangerous misunderstandings while reading the HSI indications at landing. After the TKS correction you must also change the headings fed into the NVU system by the fork value (blue values in NCALC outprint)

Kind regards

Walter

"The Tuplolev is not for everybody!" But up front in the real cockpit where sitting 4 people, who should do something to earn their pay.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:09 Reply with quote
martinlest
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 193
Location: Hampshire, UK




Yes, my German's not as good as it was, but I'll be able to follow I think. Will have to try a few times in the sim.. Thank you.
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Learning curve
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:21 Reply with quote
WalterLeo
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 1660
Location: Viena Austria




Hi Martin:

Learning the NVU system without virtual navigator presents at the beginning a steep learning curve, but after that you understand very well the methods, therefore our advice is to try learning without the virtual navigator.

BUT a good learning device is the KLN90B which gives you a clear idea of the differences between your NVU-navigation and the real position. (Only you need to translate its indications in nm into km of the NVU 1 nm=1,865 km)

Kind regards

Walter

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:10 Reply with quote
martinlest
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 193
Location: Hampshire, UK




Yes, I had already printed off the relevant NVU pages from the pdf manual. Even if I use the Virtual Navigator in practice (but I am still not sure if it will make the course corrections), I still want be able to do the corrections manually too.

I already have your German example flight downloaded - I'll try to read it through later.

Is there a manual for NCalc?
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NCALC manual
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 15:05 Reply with quote
WalterLeo
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 1660
Location: Viena Austria




In the Tu-154M manual p. 86 ff (ch 6.4.2) there is what we have gotten from the "fathers" of PT. If there are more problems plaese ask here. In the Exampleflight there is a calculation by NCALC already included. What you have to do is create an FS flightplan MMMX-MMUN or take that below and save it where you have your FS9 flightplans. Afterward you must load it into the KLN90B with FsKlnConv.
Regarding to your questions from yesterday: Handled correctly (PT) NVU navigation is very good and for the beginning it doesnt need RSBN corrections. Additional computations are not needed. The corrections are done after a longer leg, in the exampleflight after 700 km there were only marginal corrections necessery. There is no need to be continously in RSBN coverage and less to have stations situated on your track
NVU corrects wind (i.e.: drift and changes of groundspeed) by itself.
NCALC5 has the magnetic declinations realised in FS already included.
RSBN beacons are aligned to true north of their actual position.
RSBN had a slightly better range and less tolerances as VOR as it was a military system comparable with TACAN.

In real the crews had mixed experiences, some say NVU worked fine as long as it worked; others jocked, the NVU counters were very good to heat the teacup.

Kind regards

Walter



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 16:37 Reply with quote
martinlest
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 193
Location: Hampshire, UK




Thanks once again Walter. That's a great help.

I find the German guide a bit difficult to follow, I'm afraid! The German I don't know, I have translated using Google, but I am still not 100% clear. No matter. I will try to follow the procedures in the manual (p.225 et seq) and see how I get on (without using the VN).

M
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 18:46 Reply with quote
martinlest
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 193
Location: Hampshire, UK




Three more little questions:

I downloaded the RSBN updates - 'RSBN.Dat Tu-154 Ver 1.02.zip'. My RSBN folder also has an xls file in it, as well as the cfg file. I presume I need to amend the old xls file?

Why is my NCalc missing column titles and information? It's not supposed to look like this I think..

And: how do I recover the situation if I (as I sometimes do!) forget to set the NVU counter running on the runway? Once I am airborne it seems too late; at least, the a/c doesn't then follow the course correctly and whatever I do in the Virtual Navigator or NVU to try and fix things has no effect. I pretty much have to fly the rest of the flight manually.

Thanks.

M



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Some little answers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 09:55 Reply with quote
WalterLeo
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 1660
Location: Viena Austria




NCALC:

1) before pushing "calculate" you should select the beacons (RSBN for example you want to use. The prg. gives you an overview for every every waypoint which stations are within reach.
2) The resulting spreadsheet you can only see if you push "print" then it appears on your screen and gives you alternatives how to print it or save to a file.

NVU:
Its my practice to programe the two units before you will take off, set the turn anticipation to 5 or 10 km (1) and switch (2) on the counters, at least if you are doing all that on the runway as I do I never taxi around an airport in FS.
And sorry the "NVU counters on" is not mentioned in the interactive checklist as the every navigator had his own procedure where to start the counting (linged up, after liftoff etc.)
If something goes wrong:
Fly to the next waypoint using other navigation methods, reprograme the NVU (e.g.: start NVU with second waypoint) and switch on the counters there.
OR: Have a RSBN station prepared, switch on the counter when you are aware of the omission, let fly the AP the airplane by other methods (e.g. VOR, heading hold, GPS) and make a RSBN correction. Then follow with NVU coupled.

As it is also good practice to correct the NVU system after departure anyway (e.g. reaching cruise altitude), the problem can be solved in this way.

The NVU navigation is more flexibel is it seems!

Kind regards

Walter



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:19 Reply with quote
martinlest
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 193
Location: Hampshire, UK




Hi Walter. The NCalc points you make are fine. It just so happened that my screenshot was taken before I added the RSBN beacons. And I discovered yesterday that you have to select 'Print' to see the full flight plan.

By the way, what if the last three-quarters of my flight plan is through areas which NCalc shows as having no RSBN beacons in range? I won't be able to make any corrections then I guess?

Does my NCalc look right though?? Other people's (from screenshots posted) don't have the blacked out column titles for instance. And even when I have the beacons showing, I got the impression that there is other information my NCalc isn't showing?

The NVU info I will try out when I fly later.

Thanks, as ever, for the help!
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 13:54 Reply with quote
martinlest
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 193
Location: Hampshire, UK




I have tried three times to fly UOOO to UUYS and I am going crazy!! Almost ready to give up with this and go back to my Boeings and Airbuses!!

I have created a plan that looks fine, below. I have Virtual Navigator set to Auto, NVU is on and I start counting as I begin to roll down the runway. I fly manually until I am close to my flight path in FS Navigator (here halfway between UOOO and 6985E) but as soon as I engage the NVU with the HBY button (the AP is set up right, with the right flight computers) the plane turns round and heads back in the direction of the airport (though not TO the airport). I have no idea where it is going. To an RSBN beacon?? As far as I recall, if I don't set up any beacons in my NCalc flight plan, I don't have this problem.

It takes so long to get from FS9 start to the stage where I engage the NVU that I am tempted to give up with this. I have downloaded a numvber of videos from YouTube which purport to show what to do with the NVU, but the explanations aren't really showing me what is going wrong when I fly. Short of havinbg someone watch me and say what I should be doing as I do it, I don't see that I am ever going to get this to work - at least not before my patience (which was never legendary!!) runs out.

I am going to try this one more time with a flight plan with no RSBN corrections in it. Maybe that's not the problem though, I don't know. I see no reason for the plane to turn round and go in the almost opposite direction to the first waypoint. (I did notice by the way that when I started the NVU counter, the numbers did not start rolling as they should).

Martin



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NCALC
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 13:57 Reply with quote
WalterLeo
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 1660
Location: Viena Austria




Hi:

You are using ver 5.1.1 I use 5.1.0, at the screen looks identical. I stood with 5.1.0, cause it contains my new RSBN station, which you must define by hand. If you try to recalculate the Exampleflight the RSBN stations around the gulf of Mexico wont show up.
When you are operating over territory without beacons, use the VORs, but you cannot do an automatic NVU correction (PT IL 62M systems can do that with VORs also). The sheet for MMMX MMUN with VORs only would look like that below. The correction you would do in that case by hand. For example: NAU-MPG track 71,5 distance 740,6 NVU I Start NVU Diss system at overflight NAU VOR Fly the 714 km and at 650 km NVU distance select NDB MPG (270 khz), when you nearing MPG, switch off NVU I select track 81,6 261 km, home in into the NDB by hand, when overflying switch on DISS counter again. Plane turns to new track and AP will follow that.

After that switch AP off do the fork correction of the TKS compass system and correct the track of NVU to 91 switch on again AP and start your descent to MIXUN (3000 ft should be your altitude there).

Kind regards

Walter



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Switch off the virtual navigator!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 14:20 Reply with quote
WalterLeo
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 1660
Location: Viena Austria




If you are flying already and switch on VN underway the virtual navigator wants to go back were you started.

Therefore:

Fly the exampleflight MMMX-MMUN without RSBN corrections and programing by hand 3 legs APAN_NAU, NAU-MPG, MPG-MIXUN (the 700 km between NAU and MPG give a lot of time to reprograming) and before landing switch the HSI to GIK indication which gives you the magnetic heading (this is an emergency procedure of the real Tu-154) and tell afterward what happened.

Kind regards

Walter

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 14:42 Reply with quote
martinlest
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 193
Location: Hampshire, UK




The VN is switched on as I taxi...

Because there is a 'protection' (manual p.74) so that you can't save the a/c ready for takeoff on the ground (annoying! Can't the 'protection' be removed in an ini file somehow?), I have to go through the long startup procedure every time I want to try out something.

I'll see how I get on with different flight plans - with and without RSBN correction for instance.

What's really needed is a startup guide like mine, but for the NVU! Clearly I am far from being the person to write it though!

M
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NCalc questions
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