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TU154B proper procedures for LOWI Innsbruck
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 21:38 Reply with quote
Tuxklok
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Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 3




Hello, new here, but been flying Tu154b for a while. Please forgive me if this isn't the proper forum, however flight school seems fitting for these kind of questions...

I am hoping some of you fine Tu pilots and teachers could help me figure out what would be the proper or recommended procedures for operating a Tu154b at LOWI. For example, on holding and running the approaches I am unsure when would be the proper time to drop gear and/or flaps. Also when required to do tight turns on approach or departure I am not always sure what configuration, speeds, limits, etc, I should use. I put some links below for info and charts for LOWI.

Starting with the (somewhat simpler) east approach. Since holding at RTT is 9500ft or above, I believe I can be up to 230kts/425kmh and so have been staying in a clean configuration at around 400kmh when holding. Then when leaving RTT to start approach I start reducing speed to drop gear and flaps 28 once on localizer before descending glide slope. Is this ok, should I be dropping gear/flaps sooner, later, or? Start with that for now..then can move onto the visual part once correct.

Appreciate any help, thanks!

LOWI info, rules, descriptions...

Instrument Approach Chart - East
Instrument Approach Chart - West
Visual Approach Chart -- Following one of the east/west instrument approaches

SID Chart - Runway 08
SID Chart - Runway 26
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Re: TU154B proper procedures for LOWI Innsbruck
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 19:59 Reply with quote
Bell
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Location: UNNT. UUDD




Hello, Tuxklok!

LOWI is my adorable airport Улыбка So, generally, you were right with...

Tuxklok wrote:
Starting with the (somewhat simpler) east approach. Since holding at RTT is 9500ft or above, I believe I can be up to 230kts/425kmh and so have been staying in a clean configuration at around 400kmh when holding. Then when leaving RTT to start approach I start reducing speed to drop gear and flaps 28 once on localizer before descending glide slope.


You'd better have gear down and flaps at 28* before intercepting localizer. For this, you should decelerate from 425 km/h to 380-400, extend gear, then decelerate to 370 and set flaps leveler to 28* position decelerating to 280-300 km/h. Keep this IAS while descending. Also calculate vertical speed in advance for each section between Distance/Height points indicated on charts, and just keep calculated vertical speed on each section and IAS above. Execute turns with <=25* bank when circle-to-land procedures applied. Bank limit is 30*.

Extend flaps to 45* before start turning to final, set Vref+10 km/h. Not exceed 300 km/h with 45* flaps and not exceed bank 30* in turn. Stabilize approach on final until 150 meters AGL.

If you'll be able upload MSRP and video later on, probably, I can give you more advises. For instance, try to make a flight with take-off from RWY08 to RTT according to SID, then fly to KTI, hold there, then perform approach accorfing to STAR and circle-to-land to RWY08. That's exactly the exercise we have in Russian speaking flight school for advanced pilots. Улыбка

Have a good flight! Any questions are welcomed.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 21:17 Reply with quote
Tuxklok
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Thank you Bell. It is good to know I was not doing anything horribly wrong at least. Улыбка

I assume the approach from KTI is mostly the same then yes? Decelerate and get gear and flaps 28 before capturing the localizer and descend with 280-300kmh?

You say during visual part I should try to have max 25* bank, but can use 30* if needed right? So then it is ok to ignore any bank warning as long as I observe these limits then yes?

Bell wrote:
Extend flaps to 45* before start turning to final, set Vref+10 km/h. Not exceed 300 km/h with 45* flaps and not exceed bank 30* in turn. Stabilize approach on final until 150 meters AGL.

Aha! On the circle to land for 08 (not easy) I was trying to make turn to final with flaps 28 and then slow down for flaps 45 to land. I see I was wrong then, and with flaps 45 and slower speed it should hopefully be a little easier to make final turn and get lined up.

Bell wrote:
If you'll be able upload MSRP and video later on, probably, I can give you more advises. For instance, try to make a flight with take-off from RWY08 to RTT according to SID, then fly to KTI, hold there, then perform approach accorfing to STAR and circle-to-land to RWY08. That's exactly the exercise we have in Russian speaking flight school for advanced pilots.

Ok, I will try this exercise.

I am also unsure about best way to perform the SID for runway 26. Since there is tight turn after take off to come back for localizer and then RTT or another tight turn back to INN and ADILO. How would this departure be properly done?

Thank you!
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:49 Reply with quote
Bell
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I assume the approach from KTI is mostly the same then yes?
- Yes.

Decelerate and get gear and flaps 28 before capturing the localizer and descend with 280-300kmh?
- Yes. If IAS is higher, vertical speed increasing. Try to keep 290-300, but not less than 280/

You say during visual part I should try to have max 25* bank, but can use 30* if needed right?
- Exactly.

So then it is ok to ignore any bank warning as long as I observe these limits then yes?
- Bank limit indicator turns on approach if bank >15* and IAS lower than 280 km/h. For fina visuall approach you can ignore this indication, but if it turn on in some other stages of flight, check the speed or other parameters. It's written about maximum bank limit in FCOM.

I was trying to make turn to final with flaps 28 and then slow down for flaps 45 to land. I see I was wrong then, and with flaps 45 and slower speed it should hopefully be a little easier to make final turn and get lined up.
- Extend flaps to 45* position first, and then start turn to final on visual approach.

I am also unsure about best way to perform the SID for runway 26. Since there is tight turn after take off to come back for localizer and then RTT or another tight turn back to INN and ADILO. How would this departure be properly done?
- You should fly with maximum rate of climb, For this you can perform take of with flaps 28 or 15* that depends on TOW and RWY length and calculated by some tables refered in FCOM. Generally, nothing difficult anymore, turn to the right a little after take off, when at ZIRL village start turning left until intercepted localizer. Then it depends on height, if it's sufficient, fully retract flaps, othervise delay it until turned to ADILO. That's it.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 18:35 Reply with quote
Tuxklok
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Joined: 28 Dec 2010
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Thanks again Bell.

When doing SID for 26 should I ignore bank warning when making turn back to localizer? I see manual say 25* is allowed for initial turn during SID, so I guess it is ok right? Or should I try to accelerate to 340kmh so that I can make the turn with 25* bank and no warning? I think turning radius at 25* and 340kmh would be sufficient, but maybe too close for comfort...

Perhaps I just worry to much about bank warning and should ignore it in some cases as long as I observe other limits in manual... Улыбка

cheers!
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INNSBRUCK!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 18:42 Reply with quote
WalterLeo
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Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 1660
Location: Viena Austria




Thanks for dropping the charts!

As I lived many years in Salzburg trained for PPL in Austria and have flown some times in the jumpseat of a biszet there I understand well, that Innsbruck is challenging. Even coming in from the east the mountains filling the windshield are impressive.
But everything is much more challenging if the strong southerly wind called FOEHN with its strong drifts and turbulences develop.

At the end of approach East there is the challange of turning back to the rising mountains and with maximum radius of 1700 m (1600m for Spezial LOCDME EAST). Nice flight!

If Bell accepts Ill try the appraoch East with a go around starting from LOWS and going back to LOWS ijn the 154M. Ill drop the MSRP in my flightschool account.

Walter

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 07:43 Reply with quote
Bell
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Tuxklok wrote:

When doing SID for 26 should I ignore bank warning when making turn back to localizer? I see manual say 25* is allowed for initial turn during SID, so I guess it is ok right? Or should I try to accelerate to 340kmh so that I can make the turn with 25* bank and no warning? I think turning radius at 25* and 340kmh would be sufficient, but maybe too close for comfort...


That's fine. Do it with 15* flaps.

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Re: INNSBRUCK!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 07:45 Reply with quote
Bell
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Location: UNNT. UUDD




WalterLeo wrote:

If Bell accepts Ill try the appraoch East with a go around starting from LOWS and going back to LOWS ijn the 154M. Ill drop the MSRP in my flightschool account.


I'll accept, no problem. For this flight I'd prefer to watch video as well because MSRP will not let me to see specific details on approach.

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TU154B proper procedures for LOWI Innsbruck
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