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I-21 INS problem
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 00:40 Reply with quote
Eduardo Rocha
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Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 35




Good evening everybody, the situation is as next..., I have a problem with the I-21 INS unit, I have read the manual one time after another and checked every step to make it work, but unfortunately I cannot make the aircraft follow the set parameters, every single step and switch have been checked and re checked also from what I read in the forum, and still the "illy" will not fly to the set coordinates, it flies usually to north or south bound headings but that's all, it does not show any intention to set course to a selected geographical coordinate, I was thinking that this might be a bug or a problem with the installation, I also have all the other tupolevs and illyushins, but none of them give any problems. I would appreciate some advice for this dummy .

Thanks for your time
Eduardo.
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You got further than I with the INS
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:19 Reply with quote
WalterLeo
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Hi Eduardo Rocha

I never could intialize the INS sets before the batteries died. Therefore I gave up. If I remeber well, one time I did the initialization with the engines already running and the result was the same as in your experience.

But maybe Ken was more lucky:

http://www.protu-154.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=187769#187769

Write him a PM how he goes on with the I-21! Улыбка

Kind regards

Walter

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 14:57 Reply with quote
ha5mvo
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Hi Edwardo!

do you have any problems coupling the KLN to the AP?
A screenshot of the AP and the I21 subpanel might be useful in this case

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 19:19 Reply with quote
WalterLeo
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Hi: Eduardo Rocha

Did you see that:

http://www.protu-154.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3506&highlight=i21

Kind regards

Walter

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Re
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 14:55 Reply with quote
Eduardo Rocha
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Posts: 35




Hello, yes I read this thread and had a look at the AP pics as posted, yesterday night I was able to finally make it work! Смех , thou very strange, since I did the same procedure that I had been repeating one time after another, but yesterday, for some strange reason it worked! Удивление, as for the GPS yes I was using it, but since I got a very big feeling to the IL-62 I'm eager to learn to fly it. I was dealing with the INS since I would like to carry out long transatlantic flights, and the KLN system is not enough for me, thou while using the tu-154 is the perfect tool Улыбка.
Thanks for the help, if I happen to have any other issue I will comment on it.

Greetings!

P.D. my problem was too much alike from that of user "magnus", who had the same problem with the unit, thou even if I read about it and checked it for some reason it did not want to work.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 16:13 Reply with quote
ha5mvo
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Hi Edwardo!

All sorts of weird and wonderful quirks are known to have happened but nine times out of ten, a malfunction of the type you are describing is the result of people forgetting to turn on the power switch, namely the "set'" on the navigators subpanel (the one at the bottom right corner of the screenshot )

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re
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 19:44 Reply with quote
Eduardo Rocha
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Yep, I was aware of that, but it was definetely not related to my issue, since I was aware of this mandatory step, now I discovered a new "bug", it appears that sometimes when making the inputs of the coordinates, the "N" coordinates do not appear in digits and sometimes both, let's say... I make my inputs for a VOR or INT. or even an NDB, after the coordinates have been inserted correctly, the screen will show both of them before switching to coordinate e.g. no. 5, in my case this does not happen, or only will show like if I only inserted the western coordinates, with no indication if the N ones were placed. After I still decided to carry out the flight and as I suspected, when reaching certain coordinate, the aircraft starts turning to a total unknown heading which does not match with what could be the computed one. I'll try reinstalling and see what happens.

Greetings
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re
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 00:43 Reply with quote
Eduardo Rocha
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Ok, here is what happens, I reinstalled but somehow it still does the same, thou I did a new discovery, when trying the route MMMX-MUHA, I started placing the coordinates, usually the dep. for this route APN4A from rwy 05R, being APN VOR, the last point of the dep. procedure, it is located around 70KM out of MMMX, what I did is puting the next waypoint which is AVIVI, this is placed correctly showing both north and westernly coordinates in the INS, but as for another points, they don't seem to get loaded, as for this I don't know what I can do, in my little knowledge it is my beleif that I-21 is uncapable of reading or accepting certain coordinates on certain airways. Any suggestion?.

Thanks in advance for your time!
Greetings.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 13:13 Reply with quote
WalterLeo
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Eduardo Rocha


Nice to hear you will fly MMMX-MUHA. Улыбка

N.B.: normally at MMMX they take off at 05 L, its a bit longer and has no ILS and 05 R which has an ILS is reserved for incoming flights. If you put in "meteorology" 30 deg C no wind, you will see the radaraltimeter dancing while crossing the rigde before reaching Apan VOR.

I niver did that with the IL 62, but I remember that you can prepare first a FS9 flightplan, this you can import into NAVCALC5. You will get some outdated names for the waypoints but which are basically still the same (FS 2004 database!).Ммм...
In NAVCALC 5 you can work on that FPL and afterwards you can export it where you want. I normaly export it to FS9 and then with FSConv to KLN9OB.
At least in this way the KLN flies the NAVCALC5 prepaired FPL. And I can fly longer legs with NVU. The IL 62 manual talkes about the possibility of exporting to the INS also. Вопрос Вопрос

Maybe it works!

Kind regards

Walter

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 14:56 Reply with quote
ha5mvo
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Quote:
And I can fly longer legs with NVU. The IL 62 manual talkes about the possibility of exporting to the INS also.

Maybe it works!


it does!
there's a hidden clickspot either at the top right or left corner of the INS (can't remember at the moment) to import the first 9 points. Te rest can be imported as described in the manual.
Mind you, there's no hand cursor that appears, just poke the corner "blindly" so to speak.

If you are using external planners e.g. FSbuild, just create an FS plan, import it into NavCalc and subsequently export it into the I21.
Works for me each time Улыбка

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 15:38 Reply with quote
WalterLeo
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ha5mvo

Thanks Michael!!! Восклицание

Whenever I used an INS (CIVA e.g.) I thought: No wonder, that KAL 007 wandered off its course. But with that facility of exporting FPL a lot of problems should be avoided!

Kind regards

Walter

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re
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 16:17 Reply with quote
Eduardo Rocha
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thanks Walter!, ok I discovered a new thing, maybe somebody noticed this before Смущение but anyway. So, what happened is that, I made a comparison of the geographical coordinates of that route, from 3 different sources, the first the FS2004 NAV/MAP database, the second a routing from ROUTEFINDER webpage and the third from the HI-LOW Jeppesen charts, what I found out is that from fs2004, many of the coordinates are unreliable and some of them are incorrect, which is why some of those points are not taken by I-21, the points from RouteFinder seem to be a bit more exact, thou, some of them are still not readable and as for final from the HI-LOW charts it accepts all of them with no problem, and all of this from the same route! Улыбка, so from now I will have to undust my tripkit and in consequence purchase an update from jeppesen.
About MMMX yep that's correct, 05L is the departing rwy, thou, the heavies are usually sent to 05R even if it is shorter, this is, if my memory does not betray me, due to a declination, and let's not even speak the approaches! since they did an amendment some years back, they have become more complicated with the minimum IAS being 160KTS, I remember seeing some years ago before coming to Hungary, an AF 747 making a very steep turn over SMO VOR, 30 deg. or more Удивление , at some point I lost visual contact and I was thinking if something would have been wrong, but fortunately not Улыбка. and just to notice, now the last update from jeppesen shows that the course for rwy 05R ILS is now 053 and not 52 as before, with this the PLAZA NDB "MW", is now gone since the approach would be deviated by 1 degree.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 19:56 Reply with quote
WalterLeo
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Eduardo Rocha


Hi Eduardo: Before spending a small fortune on the Jeppesen charts, better look at that:

http://www.vatmex.com/index1.htm

If coordinates not enter into the I 21, shure has other reasons. To my knowledge the I 21 has no database installed, therefore an outdated waypoint could not harm anything.
What could be the case is, that the input of the data has more or less digits as the maps or the PT- I 21 was disgned and tested only for Russian airspace and far west ( more than 100 w is Mexico City) the algorithm of the PT-INS gets crazy.
IF Vatmex flies online with that charts, it should work (taking the sidestep over NAVCALC 5) if the algorithm of I 21 can handle western hemispere.

That the Rwys are renamed is a consequence of changes in the magnetic field and in the West the rwy headings are magnetic, not so in Russia. Therefore the rwy didnt move, the approachpath neither not the bullfighting ring ("PLAZA"). The NDB atop of it was scratched as obsolete and cause western pilots dont fly well NDB-approaches.Хитрый

Kind regards

Walter

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I-21 INS problem
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