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Unbelivible takeoff
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 01:38 Reply with quote
Dotti
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Found these pics in another forum:

IL-96 departing Phuket
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/321482/L/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/312682/L/

and this one:

IL-86 departing Phuket
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/995911/L/

Looks like the russian pilots have fully trust in the performance and the
parameters of there aircrafts. Удивление
No safty margin left!

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 05:43 Reply with quote
demid
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It's really hard to take off Il-86 when air is hot and pressure is low (at mountains airfields for example).
There's a joke about Il-86, that it can take off only because of the curveness of the Earth Радостный

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Re: Unbelivible takeoff
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 05:49 Reply with quote
demid
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Dotti wrote:
Looks like the russian pilots have fully trust in the performance and the
parameters of there aircrafts. Удивление
No safty margin left!


Btw, they calculate a margin of cancel take off (it depends on the temperature, t/o weight, r/w distance, etc), so after they have passed it, there's no any choice but take off only.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 09:28 Reply with quote
Dotti
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Quote:
There's a joke about Il-86, that it can take off only because of the curveness of the Earth

He He He ... Радость

Quote:
Btw, they calculate a margin of cancel take off (it depends on the temperature, t/o weight, r/w distance, etc), so after they have passed it, there's no any choice but take off only.


But that`s a normal procedure to calculate your decision speed so after passing V1 you have to perform the take off.
And normally you calculate also the r/w lenght required for t/o.
But if you need 9800 ft and the rwy is 9800 ft long...
And in the pictures it looks like they used all of the 9800 ft of the availible runway Удивление Удивление Удивление

Do they have different methods in russia to calculate t/o data?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:22 Reply with quote
demid
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Dotti wrote:
And in the pictures it looks like they used all of the 9800 ft of the availible runway Удивление Удивление Удивление

There was a phrase at airliners.net, which made me laugh: they had paid for this runway and they used it till the last cent. Not the same words, but the same mean.
Dotti wrote:

Do they have different methods in russia to calculate t/o data?

I'm not sure about it... But some passengers bring more lagguge on the board then they have paid for. So the real t/o weight is more then it should be according to the documents.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 20:32 Reply with quote
Dotti
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found this on the airliners.net forum:
Quote:
and they say the A343 is underpowered
That is one (well 2) scary take-off. Wonder what the calls are...
80 Kts... check..
end of runway ... Rotate

Да Да Да

and from another forum:
Quote:
"The wind was 090/14kts, the reason they select Rwy27 to takeoff is because of the sea in front instead of a hard to clear terrain on Rwy09 end. The tower did ask the captain twice about selecting takeoff on Rwy 27 but the answer was affirmative and "we accept Rwy 27"."

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 03:36 Reply with quote
Tu154Pilot
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Удивление Удивление Удивление

Not only was he using the WHOLE runway, but had a 14kt tail wind AS WELL?! Удивление Удивление Удивление

Whoa......

Best regards,
Robin.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 17:55 Reply with quote
Dotti
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Okay, next turn, same photographer, same aircraft, though still a different airline, top performance from russia... Улыбка
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0996987/L/
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Take Off
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 17:10 Reply with quote
WalterLeo
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Len Morgan how was a writer in FLYING and retired CAP. of Braniff, he told the story, when he as a young captain had to take off the first time in the 720 (the underpowerd 707) from Mexico City. He wondered while taxing to the runway, why everybody on the airport was gathering to whatch, if anybody with a problem would be coming in. His very experienced FO commented "No Sir, somebody with a problem is going out--we! Better you stand on the brakes up to full power." You can enact that on FS 2004 with a 80% full 720 or IL 62M. Temperature to 30 deg Celsius no wind. It really flies at the last meters of the runway. After that you have to balance attitude, airspeed and climb, if not it goes down again. In the IL 62M at least You have an AOA, in the 720 they hadn't. Aeroflot flew some years with the IL 62M to Mexico, but with a stop in Havanna, therefore the takeoff from Mexico was not so heavy.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 15:44 Reply with quote
OKB156
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are you sure the 720 is underpowered? it has the same engines as the 707 but smaller in size. i think it was quite an overpowered aircraft

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 17:00 Reply with quote
WalterLeo
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The problem is, that the 707-720 family had a lot of different engines:
When BRANIFF started its jet service they began with the 707-227 which had the JT4A P&W engine a turbojet with 17.000 p of static thrust. Their Boeing 720 had the JT 3C-7 also a turbojet with 12.000 p.
If you look after the takeoff performance on the Boeing-Homepage you find a 720 with JT 3 C-7 engines (12.000 p thrust). For an elevetion of 8000 ft. (MexicoCity is around 7400 ft) this plane could take off in 3800 m with 190.000 p on a Standard Day plus 15 deg C.
A 707 with 17.000 p of thrust (no data for the JT4 A but for the JT 3 D 1 turbofan) it could take of with 220.000 pounds under the same conditions.
The only airplane of that time which jumped off the runway was the COMET, Mexicana de Aviancion had 4 of them and flew them without accident for more than 10 years. Which says also a lot about the quality of the mexican pilots! Praise to them!
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 21:58 Reply with quote
Gavin
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Watch this Il-76: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdMNg8FrVYM
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:41 Reply with quote
WalterLeo
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Nice video, reminds me of the three most useless quantities in aviation:
Hight above, air in the tanks, runway behind.
But more important: In all these videos professional pilots resisted the temptation to force their ship to fly and waited to rotate at the adequate speed to the right attitude. A lot of airplanes were wrecked by the understandable urge to pull it of hard, when the end of the runway is growing bigger and bigger in the windshield.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 18:58 Reply with quote
denokan
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Quote:
No safty margin left!


Why?

Generally, Takeoff distance = RW distance + Clearway. At the end of TO distance the aircraft must reach 35 feet.

I am not sure, but may be it was satisfied even in Il-86's take-off.


Last edited by denokan on Tue May 05, 2009 20:01; edited 1 time in total

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 01:51 Reply with quote
Xstasus
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Awsome Умник Love the Il-86 and Il-96! Хорошо
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Unbelivible takeoff
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