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Список форумов Project Tupolev Team » Projects Tu-104, Tu-124 and Tu-134 » NAS-1 in TU-124 swapped XY counters?
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NAS-1 in TU-124 swapped XY counters?
СообщениеДобавлено: Сб Авг 16, 2008 06:24 Ответить с цитатой
KFC
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Hi,
I made a flight today with the -124, and found out what seemed like a "swap" of functions of indicator needles on the NAS-1; that is, the "C" or "North" counter worked as the "b" or "East" or "lateral Deviation" counter. In other words, it seemed the needles were swapping indications. I have not had a chance to compare it to a GPS but will do so. I made sure my map angle was correct and the actuation also. I did check it against the FS Map and seemed to correlate the error.
Also, does the wind shown in the "sticky pad" in the navigator's panel show wind direction as "coming from" or "going to" ? It seems to indicate as in the naval "tides" version, where the tides are given as "going to" direction. I say this because the corrections I was making were opposite the side where the "sticky pad" indication was saying it was coming from. Any ideas? Thanks in advance for your help, and sorry to bother you so much. Улыбка
Regards,
Macs Улыбка

Here is picture to clarify, hopefully...

Note "Map angle" setting is 213 Degrees, the "little plane" is also pointing at 213 Degrees, but this is not the setting, it just coincides with the setting at that moment, as it should be. I just htought to clarify as it may seem that the map angle was not set correctly (due to pointed arrows), in fact if yu look closely at the little setting "window" it reads 213 (a bit hard to read I know, due to the resolution in the picture).


Крайний раз редактировалось: KFC (Сб Авг 16, 2008 23:24), всего редактировалось 2 раз(а)
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СообщениеДобавлено: Сб Авг 16, 2008 21:03 Ответить с цитатой
KFC
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Another item I forgot to add that convinced me that the needles were swapped was that "B" counter does not react to heading changes, but "C" does (and in a very exaggerated way too). Shouldn't it be the other way around?

regards,
Macs Улыбка
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СообщениеДобавлено: Ср Авг 20, 2008 05:22 Ответить с цитатой
Wishmaster
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In NAS gauge for autonomical mode swapped degrees and radians. Parameters C and B calculates wrongly
This known error from release date, but i can't chenge GAU Грусть

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Михаил
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СообщениеДобавлено: Чт Авг 21, 2008 15:58 Ответить с цитатой
KFC
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Wishmaster писал(а):
In NAS gauge for autonomical mode swapped degrees and radians. Parameters C and B calculates wrongly
This known error from release date, but i can't chenge GAU Грусть

Ok. Thanks for the info Michael. I'll use RSBN/NDB covered routes in the meantime for the Tu-124. Any word on an upcoming patch? Just curious,
regards,
Macs
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СообщениеДобавлено: Ср Окт 27, 2010 14:52 Ответить с цитатой
WalterLeo
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KFC
Wishmaster

After a long time I flew the Tu 124 again for trying the RSBN navigation, installing RSBN stations along my favorite route MMMX to MMUN. The wind I always put in as wind is coming from, as its usual in aviation. Proverb: You always know from where the wind comes but not where it will go.

Next time I will check the counter=swap question cause NI=50 coincided more or less with RSBN distance and the GPS borrowed from the Tu=134, but maybe I looked only on the needles and not the indices. But knowing the problem one can live with the idea that in 124 B is distance and C is course deviation.

In general the 124 is very pleasant to fly and after saving a flight it comes back with exactly the settings you left it, even the compass system is still where you have put it.

Regards

Walter

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Swaped Counters?
СообщениеДобавлено: Вт Дек 07, 2010 16:21 Ответить с цитатой
WalterLeo
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Hi everybody!

Recently I flew the Tu 124 again and the counters of the NI-50 worked as they should. I checked the distances with RSBN and with the King KLN90B GPS and the results were quite good, as long as I updated the winds aloft frequently.

Best regards

Walter

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Swap Counters
СообщениеДобавлено: Пн Авг 01, 2011 21:08 Ответить с цитатой
WalterLeo
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After flying with the Navigator station of the Tu 124 in other airplanes (Tu 114 e.g.) I never experienced a swap between s and z counters, but the Z counter gives not a steering command (if it goes left it means you are left of track and must steer right) maybe that gave the impression of the swaped counters.

Kind regards

Walter

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NI-50 rechecked
СообщениеДобавлено: Пн Мар 17, 2014 13:14 Ответить с цитатой
WalterLeo
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After years I used again the NI-50 in Tu-104 and in the updated Tu-114.

What came out:

With the panel of the Tu-104 by STEPANOV the NI-50 works as it should and over 1000 km in no wind condition the instrument error in B (lateral) indication is only around one percent, less still on C (distance)

But on the Tu-124 panel of SAMDIM the instrument is useless.

After some trials it came out, that in the Tu-104 panel the gauges for calculating the navigation are:


gauge50=scs_tu134Nav!KS-8, 0,0,1,1
gauge51=scs_tu134Nav!ANU, 0,0,1,1 //для работы ни-50
gauge52=scs_tu134Nav!DISS-013, 0,0,1,1

This calculating gauges paired with the NI-50 gauges of the Tu-104 work very well.

If one uses the gauges of the Tu-124:

gauge97=scs_tu124Nav!KS-8, 0,0,1,1
gauge98=scs_tu124Nav!ANU, 0,0,1,1

The NI-50 of the Tu-104 and the Tu-124 show grossly erroneous results.


Kind regards

Walter

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NI-50 Handling explained
СообщениеДобавлено: Чт Апр 05, 2018 19:52 Ответить с цитатой
WalterLeo
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Hi friends:

Came back to the Tu-104 and by chance found an English translation of the Navigation Handbook by Markov:

www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/750493.pdf

BINGO!! not only the dak-db Astrokompas navigation computer is explained also the handling of the NI-50. As I have replaced the SV counter by the Tu-134 counter already in my upload of the Tu-124s so now: Failures I and others will find are not fault of the instrument anymore, but fault of the inputs: YOU must not use the wind in the notation of meterology (from where it comes) but where it goes (navigators notation). When you see in FS wind 270/10 (or 270/18 on the navigators note) you must dial in 90/18 on the ZW instrument.
The swap of S and V occurs only in the Tu-124 using the original instrument. Strange thing that same counter in the Tu-104 works well.

Kind regards

Walter

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NAS-1 in TU-124 swapped XY counters?
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